Special Meeting
FALLS CHASE DEVELOPMENT
A
special meeting was conducted to consider negotiations with regard to the
Fallschase Chapter 163 Development Agreement.
The following were present in a publicly noticed meeting that was held
on October 12, 2005, at the County Courthouse in the 5th Floor
Conference Room - Commissioner Proctor,
Commissioner Rackleff, County Attorney, Herb Thiele; County Administrator,
Parwez Alam; Cari Roth, Miller-Brown & Olive assisting the County Attorney;
Representatives from Buck Lake Alliance; Ron Carlson, Executive Vice President
A.I.G.; Andrew Lewis A.I.G.; Rick Bateman; Attorney Robert Apgar whose firm is
representing A.I.G.
The
Meeting was called to order at
Commissioner
Proctor indicated that Mr. Rick Bateman would be representing the Applicant;
and Ms. Cari Roth would be allowed to make comment if she so desired.
Commissioner Proctor stated that an agreement would need to be reached at this meeting in order to serve Public Notice on the next day, October 13, 2005, regarding this matter being heard at the October 25th, 2005 Regular BCC Meeting.
Mr.
Bateman noted that two representatives from A.I.G. as well as their attorney,
Bob Apgar with the firm of Greenberg Traurig, Ron Carlson, Vice-President A.I.G.
Baker, and Andrew Lewis were present today with him. Mr. Bateman stated that unlike many 163
Agreements this Agreement has not just been a negotiation between a potential
developer or a landowner and the County.
AIG has had to involve the Trust for
Mr.
Bateman stated the purpose of this Hearing is to make sure everyone understands
what “rules of conduct they will be subject to” before the developer gets
involved in a project that cannot go forward.
Mr. Bateman then turned the meeting over to Mr. Carlson, Executive Vice
President, A.I.G.
Mr.
Carlson stated that A.I.G has spent a lot of time trying to create a resolution
of the entire property for this development that would be agreeable to all
parties involved. One aspect of this
resolution would allow for the easement of the lake bottom to be placed in
public hands; and, possibly ultimately for the donation of the fee to the
public.
Mr.
Carlson referred to the current main site development plan during a slide
presentation. Mr. Carlson detailed the
plans for the site. He pointed to Hwy 90
and the intersection of Hwy 90 and
Mr.
Carlson indicated that A.I.G. does not foresee any apartments in the
Development. The attached housing would
all be ‘for sale units’. He then pointed to the upper
Mr.
Carlson pointed to Hwy 90 cutting across and
Commissioner
Proctor verified that this road is a new introduction in terms of access to the
commercial area. Mr. Carlson confirmed
that this is a ‘new introduction’ and stated this is not a ‘public’ road. This road is intended to provide better
access to the area.
Mr.
Carlson outlined the Development with slides.
The storefront of the 1st story faces what A.I. G. is calling
“
Commissioner
Proctor asked Staff about the overview of the commercial plan. Commissioner Proctor asked if Staff saw any
problems with this plan. Commissioner
Proctor asked if Staff saw anything that made them want to ‘jump and shout’
right now. Cari Roth didn’t see any problems with the layout; but noted the
issue that had come up before which was with the median cuts on Buck Lake Road
and their proximity to the Hwy 90 Intersection and making sure those don’t
interfere with the turning movement. Mr.
Carlson said
Commissioner
Proctor asked Mr. McDevitt, Public Works, if this 600 ft of space created with
the new Plan is enough and verified that this new plan alleviates concerns
Staff had with a connection in the previous plan. Commissioner Proctor asked what the Buck Lake
Alliance’s response is to the current Plan.
Mr. Carlson indicated they have not formulated their response yet. A.I.G. has shared this plan with them and
while he thinks it was well-received he would be remiss to say the
Commissioner
Proctor again stated how helpful he felt it would be for the Commissioners to
tour the site themselves. Mr. Carlson
said he would be out of town next week; but could do a tour with the
Commissioners on Monday, October 24th and encouraged Staff to join
them. The addition of the new street
relieves a lot of tension from traffic concerns.
Andrew
Lewis then detailed some of the elevations in the plan. He referenced the details of a preliminary grading
scheme.
Commissioner
Proctor asked Mr. Apgar about the commitment of the Right of Way on
Mr.
Carlson said it has always been his intention to donate this Right of Way. Mr. Carlson wanted to know if what he is presenting
is consistent with the county plans and asked if the County’s plan takes the
entire Right of Way out of the Fallschase side of the road. Commissioner Proctor cited the current
Agreement Paragraph 15 (a) “The Applicant shall donate right-of-way to the
County for improvement of Buck Lake Road pursuant to the plans previously
approved by the County and the Department of Transportation”. Commissioner Proctor indicated that he does
not know what plans previously approved this section is referring to.
Mr.
Bateman said that there are an approved set of plans. At one point in time, that widening was
approved and it was funded. That money
was subsequently sent somewhere else. Those
plans have been approved, stamped. Mr.
Carlson asked if Staff had an approximate idea of how many feet we are talking
about – in depth. Mr. Carlson said he
does not have a problem with the section that goes through the location where
he has both sides of the road. Staff
responded they are talking about approximately 50 ft.
Cari
Roth asked whether the intersection plan still works with A.I.G.’s current
plans in regard to Hwy 90 and
Mr.
Bateman wanted to point out there was still 2 or 3 million dollars left in
monies that had been retained for the intersection work. Mr. Carlson said he is willing to pay for the direct impacts Fallschase is making on
these contiguous roadways. Commissioner
Proctor said this would be warmly regarded by the Board.
Administrator
Alam noted that would help the County in regard to transferring the money budgeted for that then to the Mahan Project.
Mr.
Bateman reported the County had money left for the intersection and a certain
amount of money dedicated to four-laning Mahan down to I-10; but there’s a
shortfall on the four-lane project.
County Administrator Alam said the County is $8 million dollars short on
funding for the four-lane project.
Commissioner
Proctor stated that what A.I.G. has put on the table is paying for a traffic
impact for which the County then would not have to absorb monies; and to the
extent that A.I.G. is alleviating the County’s absorption of the cost of these
changes creates a strong plus for this Project.
Mr. Carlson thanked Commissioner Proctor. Commissioner Proctor said this was a strong
check mark for him toward approval of the Agreement.
Mr.
Carlson asked if there were any more questions on the “commercial” aspect of
the planned Development. David McDevitt,
Public Works asked what the overall plan for Weems Road is.
Andrew
Lewis pointed out a road planned to go to
Mr.
Carlson pointed out that the entrance is awfully close to Mahan; but, if the
Right of Way is there or if there’s enough room
A.I.G. would do some sort of turn lane going into the property. Commissioner Proctor asked Mr. McDevitt if he
was comfortable with that and he confirmed that he was.
Cari
Roth asked if Mr. Carlson would go through the intersections and note which
ones are full intersections, which ones are signalized and which ones are right-in
and right-out. Mr. Carlson detailed
these on the drawings. Mr. Carlson did
say there was a median cut on Mahan that was not quite in the right
alignment. Mr. Carlson went through the
entrances – there are three entrances coming down the remainder of the
property. Ms. Roth asked if these were
right in/right out. Mr. Carlson said
this would depend on whether or not there was a median in the County’s Plans.
Mr.
Carlson proceeded to talk about the lake bottom and a proposal that is on the
table to develop and preserve the lake bottom.
Commissioner Proctor asked Mr. Bateman to state what paragraph addresses
the lake bottom in the Draft Agreement.
Mr. Bateman said Paragraph 6 addresses this issue under “Southern
Property” which has been defined as everything below the 51 ft contour. Mr. Bateman pointed out that almost all of
that property A.I.G. is going to place a Conservation Easement on, with the
exception of what they are about to present.
Mr.
Carlson is going to explain what would go into conservation easement. This idea was just developed within the last
week to ten days. A.I.G. has contracted
with Mr. Bailey to acquire the lake bottom.
A.I.G. has discussed various solutions with the County, the City, and
nobody really wanted to step forward and commit the funds to make this work. Therefore, A.I.G. decided to buy the land and
has developed a plan that is a fairly non-obtrusive plan, per Mr. Carlson. They
have about 80 lake front lots, a good many of which are on what has been
referred to as ‘fingers’ that have already been filled.
Andrew
Lewis detailed the areas that will receive some degree of fill to address the
building pads, driveways and the garage pads.
If this Plan is approved by the County, A.I.G. would grant a conservation
easement to
Mr.
Carlson said A.I.G. feels with the easement in public hands the lake bottom
problem should be solved for everyone.
A.I.G. can work it out economically with this type of plan. Therefore, Mr. Carlson said the “Master Plan”,
or, the first Plan A.I.G. showed the Commission will be amended to incorporate
the above detailed lots and the changes in the retail section prior to the
Commission Meeting on the 25th.
Commissioner
Proctor asked County Attorney Thiele if he had any problem with the lake bottom
issue.
Mr.
Carlson informed the group that A.I.G. had the Buck Lake Alliance and other
neighborhoods out yesterday and they walked most of the shoreline. Mr. Carlson continued showing slides. He referred
to the green circles on one drawing to point out that they represented specimen
trees. A.I.G. has designed this plan to
have little or no impact on these specimen trees.
A.I.G.
has put house pads on each one of the lots.
Mr. Carlson stated A.I.G believes this method will preserve the
area.
Mr.
Carlson pointed to the eastern side of the property involving a lot of real
estate there that is between the 51 and 40 foot contour which was generally the
back lot line.
Mr.
Carlson didn’t know if Buck Lake Alliance could agree with this Plan; but, they
have agreed with ‘that’ concept. A representative
from
Commissioner
Proctor clarified that these houses are on ‘pilings’.
Commissioner
Proctor spoke to the issue of the ‘lake bottom’ and how there has been
reticence on the part of the County; because County as well as public outcry
did not want ‘public’ dollars to be invested in this. For A.I.G. to invest in the lake bottom to
the extent they are is a huge breakthrough according to Commissioner Proctor.
Commissioner
Proctor complimented what the developer has achieved by agreeing to put money
in the lake bottom that the County did not have to invest. The lake bottom, Commissioner Proctor noted,
will now be placed in the hands of the public.
This was a controversial issue Commissioner Proctor is very pleased to
see resolved.
Mr.
Carlson then referred to the drawings representing the type of architecture
A.I.G. is going to impose on builders.
He re-iterated that A.I.G. is there for the long haul.
Commissioner
Proctor stated that these ‘house types’ are too reminiscent perhaps. The ‘old time south’ look did not appeal to
Commissioner Proctor; and, this type of architecture was not culturally
sensitive. Commissioner Proctor inquired as to whether the architectural appeal
could be broadened.
Mr.
Carlson said A.I.G. could certainly consider that. Mr. Carlson said he would hope these homes
were not reminiscent of plantation homes. Commissioner Proctor asked what the
basic square footage of these homes is.
Depending
on the lot size house size will go from a low of 1250, 1500 sq. ft. on a single
family home up to 4,000 to 5,000 sq. ft. per Mr. Carlson. Commissioner Proctor stated he hoped that the
smaller homes would not be so prissy as to exclude our state workers from being
able to afford to live there.
Commissioner
Proctor reiterated that average, ordinary, working people need a place to live
and would like that place to be decent, safe, and prosperous in tone. Commissioner Proctor does not want to see
A.I.G. out price this county’s market.
Mr. Carlson said the attached housing is an alternative that will be
available to a lot of people.
Mr.
Carlson then turned to the commercial renderings. Commissioner Proctor asked Mr. Carlson why this
community should embrace what A.I.G. is proposing.
Mr.
Bateman and Mr. Lewis spoke to a chart referring to the square footage, the
appropriate value of the property, the ad valorem taxes, the payroll, and the
jobs the project would create. Mr.
Bateman said the chart reflects about $300,000 in ad valorem taxes, a huge
amount in sales tax, with about $14
million a year in sales tax from which a lot of local money will go directly to
A.I.G. and not to the State. So, A.I.G.
will be able to maintain a very big payroll.
A.I.G. will give those figures to the Commission this afternoon.
Mr.
Carlson said several million dollars annually will come into this community,
just from the commercial aspect of the development. Then, Mr. Carlson indicated that 1500 units
at $250,000 average construction cost will
also create a lot of money. This is not
counting the money that will come to the County by way of sales tax and to the
State that will flow back down. Plus,
the money for the jobs created by this project will be a plus to the community. A.I.G. said there is a huge payroll
associated with the retail deal.
Commissioner
Proctor asked if we could get some kind of time line as to when these jobs
would come into being. Mr. Carlson
stated the time it takes will be dictated by the length of time it takes to get
through the upcoming probating processes which he believes is between 3 – 5 months. As soon as they receive permits, A.I.G. would
start site construction of the commercial and the first phase of residential.
The
vertical construction on the retail would start as soon as the site was ready
to accept it; probably early next year.
Commissioner Proctor asked if A.I.G. would use local people – local engineers
and architects – or were they going to come in with these people already in
mind. A.I.G. has used local firms. Mr. Carlson said he cannot promise that the
shopping center final engineering plans will be done by a local firm because
they have almost a captive engineering firm that knows how they do business all
over the
Mr.
Carlson said they haven’t decided how they are going to approach that
issue. A.I.G. may only have ‘approved’
builders. Of course if a lot owner had
their own architect and was approved they would have to follow the
architectural rules and regulations of the community that will be established
along with the plats of this property.
Commissioner
Proctor said he would like to see something in this Agreement that makes a
reference to our County’s MBE, our County’s desire for local preference, even
in regards to the lumber being bought for this project. Mr. Carlson said that concluded his
presentation and he and his staff were certainly open for any questions.
Commissioner
Proctor said this plan represents a considerable difference in the plans
previously seen. He stated the
Commission has seen some broad advancement in terms of how to complete this
project. Commissioner Proctor said that
the total value and good this project would bring to the community gives it a
lot of weight.
Commissioner
Proctor noted the County put out between $5 and $6 million dollars to a company
in
Commissioner
Proctor stated this new aspect of the Fallschase Agreement is empowering for
the County in terms of enabling them to do something with water and makes it
possible for the County to work out a plan with the City in regard to Weems
Pond. Commissioner Proctor also noted
A.I.G. Baker is on the list of Fortune 500 companies, and has an excellent
reputation throughout the country. Commissioner Proctor is impressed with
A.I.G.’s background.
However,
Commissioner Proctor noted there were concerns raised in regard to
transportation he wanted to make sure everyone was clear on. Commissioner Proctor wanted to make sure that
Staff is comfortable with any traffic issues and with what has been projected
for commercial square footage. Commissioner Proctor asked if there were any
questions Staff had on the 850 square ft planned for commercial use, the
residential units projected, the conservation easement, and/or even the 51 ft
line, the trips, and anything else.
Mr. Ezcagaghi,
Environmental Review Supervisor, attending the meeting for John Kraynak,
Environmental Compliance raised the question of how the stormwater treatment
would be achieved and if it will meet the
Mr.
Lewis stated that A.I.G. plans to treat the stormwater in accordance to county
regulations, specifically the table in the county’s code that describes about 4
different methods to treat stormwater.
One method is a 1 and 1/8 inch requirement; a dry detention, a wet
detention and two others. A.I.G. plans
to treat the stormwater in accordance with the methods outlined in the table in
the County code.
Commissioner
Proctor asked Mr. Bateman if the treatment at 1 and 1/8 inches had not already
been stated in the Agreement. Mr.
Bateman said yes, they are using the same language in regard to
stormwater. A.I.G. stated they are open
to other methods, if preferable. Mr. Ezcagaghi
said he asked this question because their Director, John Kraynak questioned the
language of an agreement A.I.G. proposed. The environmental regulations in effect
at the time the development was originally approved were effective in 1970.
Mr.
Bateman referred to page 14, section 13B, of the Agreement - stormwater
standards: “County agrees applicant will
be required to retain a maximum of the first 1 and 1/8 or the equivalent
treatment of stormwater runoff from developed portions of the property. Stormwater treatment bay be provided in part,
or whole, by underground stormwater treatment chambers.”
Mr.
Bateman stated A.I.G. makes a general statement in this Agreement that will be
revised. Commissioner Proctor asked if a
‘holding pond’ is an ‘underwater treatment chamber’. No, was the response. Commissioner Proctor asked if the term
‘underground treatment chamber’ had come up before. County Attorney Thiele said that the
Walgreen’s across from the hospital is going to implement one. This is a new
methodology of holding water underground, then treating the water, then moving
it along.
Atty.
Bob Apgar stated that A.I.G. agreed with County Attorney Thiele. Mr. Apgar stated that’s why A.I.G.’s intention
is to get the best draft they can to County Attorney Thiele tomorrow,
Mr. Apgar indicated that at the Public
Hearing, through the proper procedures then, that draft could be changed. So, in the interim period, Mr. Apgar said A.I.G.
will continue working with Staff, invite Buck Lake Alliance to work on
refinements to the development process and other issues people want to
address. Mr. Apgar reported that then
any ‘agreed changes’ would be presented at the Public Hearing and hope that
some member of the Commission would be willing to make the appropriate motion
to insert those into the Agreement.
“Notice” doesn’t guarantee people that what they see in the Clerk’s
Office will never change, according to Atty. Apgar.
Commissioner
Proctor stated he thinks County Attorney Thiele is correct. The Agreement can have minor changes, but no
major substance changes can be made to the Agreement.
Commissioner
Proctor said County Attorney Thiele MUST have the documents he needs tomorrow
in order to make the notifications he needs to make. Commissioner Proctor asked if Mr. Carlson can
take responsibility for County Attorney Thiele receiving everything he needs by
tomorrow. Mr. Carslon said the documents
will be ready. Mr. Carlson stated he
believes he has to be on the October
25th agenda to meet the terms of the contract.
Commissioner
Rackleff stated the current draft agreement continues to have most of the major
problems inherent in the first draft.
The Applicant wants to be vested from Caltran, wants to be exempt from
all the environmental and development requirements passed since the early
1970’s, and he wants the opportunity to write his own rules. Commissioner Rackleff stated they are not
protecting the public or the environment with this Agreement as drafted. Commissioner Rackleff indicated that problems
like the 1 and 1/8 standard exist and that figure is inadequate. Commissioner
Rackleff indicated the Board knows this.
Commissioner
Rackleff stated that a lot of information has been dumped on the Staff, the
Board and the public in one day. Commissioner Rackleff stated that to expect
people to understand what this Agreement amounts to is unrealistic. Commissioner Rackleff indicated this matter
needs more time. Commissioner Rackleff
stated he is sorry about the Developer’s time problem; but, that is not the
Board’s problem. The Board’s problem is
how to protect the environment and the quality of life in the community.
Commissioner
Proctor stated he thought the 1 and 1/8 rule was the rule; and asked County
Attorney Thiele if this was correct.
Commissioner
Rackleff stated this project is in a
lake protection zone; and, this means the County does have higher standards for
developments in lake protection zones. Commissioner Rackleff argued this
Agreement does not meet the kind of standards that are in place for
Commissioner
Proctor said he is going to send his reflections and thoughts about what has
been presented overall. He is merely
giving his observations as a negotiator. Commissioner Proctor said he will not
make a recommendation.
Commissioner
Proctor accepts the date of
Commissioner
Proctor stated he is very pleased and excited about this project. Commissioner
Proctor thanked everyone for the spirit and the professionalism they have
displayed throughout this process.
Commissioner Proctor thanked Cari Roth for her ability to listen to all
the diverse voices coming for Staff and thinks she has done a great job of
translating these voices into something that will cut legal muster. Commissioner Proctor thanked County Attorney
Thiele, County Administrator Alam, and all the Staff persons who have supported
him. Commissioner Proctor thanked Mr.
Bailey and his staff, Mr. Carlson, and his staff. Commissioner Proctor said he has a wonderful
feeling about the integrity and character of A.I.G. as well as the character of
this project that he believes will enhance our community.
Commissioner
Rackleff wanted to make a final point - when the public comes to review any
documents later this week, in the courthouse, all they will have are the
materials that were submitted by A.I.G.-Baker.
Commissioner Rackleff stated there will be nothing in there that are
staff analyses of these proposals, no Staff recommendations. Commissioner
Rackleff noted it will be a one-sided and
incomplete body of information for people to review. That’s why Commissioner Rackleff continues to
insist it is premature to have a hearing on this matter on October 25th.
Commissioner
Proctor stated the Applicant is the moving forward party in this matter and
said that A.I.G. has received Staff recommendations and analyses all along the
way. That is why the new road, the
conservation easement, the median cut removed from the original front and moved
down to the main entrance have been included in the new Agreement draft. Commissioner Proctor noted that all these
new documents have been in response to Staff analysis and recommendation.
Commissioner
Proctor mentioned that this negotiation has been unique and different from any
negotiated settlement in the County’s history.
Largely at Commissioner Rackleff’s request there will be an open process
for the public. Commissioner Proctor
said even though this applicant has been treated differently than any
other in the past.
The
process this 163 Agreement has experienced has been far more open than any
other 163 Agreement. The negotiations of
this Agreement have certainly been done before the public. Commissioner Proctor is proud of that. Never has another Commissioner had to carry
the weight of public inspection and public introspection to negotiate something
as Commissioner Proctor has been made to do with this project.
Commissioner
Proctor thanked everyone involved again.
The
meeting adjourned at